Post by bootyisle on Jul 27, 2015 10:55:47 GMT -8
Ahoy Booty,
I was wondering whether you used Slack (https://slack.com) at all? We're considering doing a chat with a group of Captains of big, active guilds in a couple of weeks (to allow people to get to grips with the new update) in order to get their opinions about the game, and would like you to join us if you're available!
Cheers,
Lynsey
Lynsey [Midoki], Jul 9, 2015 ReportReply
Booty isle
Booty isle
Crew
Yes. I do have it. I am not currently using it with my guild though. Would you like me to join a group?
Captain Of "420 pirates" A top 50 guild. Come sail the high seas with us.
Booty isle, Jul 9, 2015 ReportReply
Lynsey [Midoki]
Lynsey [Midoki]
Senior Designer
Staff Member
I'll just need your email address to send you an invite. What times/days are good for you?
Lynsey [Midoki], Jul 9, 2015 ReportReply
Booty isle
Booty isle
Crew
Orange220@aol.com
Anytime could be good for me with advanced notice. I live in California so something during business hours would be harder but not impossible.
Captain Of "420 pirates" A top 50 guild. Come sail the high seas with us.
Booty isle, Jul 9, 2015 ReportReply
Booty isle
Booty isle
Crew
Thank you for inviting my guild to the conversation this morning. I honestly came for one major reason that I couldn't seem to get an answer on but is vital to my guilds morale. The pirates ai issues within the battles is extremely frustrating and is leaving my guild members scratching their heads and upset with this game.. Namely the bombers not breaching walls and the heavy gunner shooting at destroyed buildings and random walls where there are openings. Obviously the wd is the most upsetting change but it is acting like you intended so we just have to adjust. There is no adjusting to the bombers or HG issues. Can you please let me know if there are serious plans to fix these or are they a non issue for you?
Captain Of "420 pirates" A top 50 guild. Come sail the high seas with us.
Booty isle, Today at 9:17 AM ReportReply
Lynsey [Midoki]
Lynsey [Midoki]
Senior Designer
Staff Member
New
Ahoy Booty, and thanks for coming along!
Witch Doctor: We're currently looking at a compromise between his previous AI and his current AI. We can't revert it, because that would lose all of the other improvements (prioritisation between living, dead, regular and skellywag skeletons), and we also don't want to base it purely around numbers of troops as some have suggested, because then it'll penalise players who use a WD to protect their tanks. The WD as he currently stands is currently optimised to be used with at least one other witch doctor (for example, I always send in one WD with my Juggs & Brutes, then when they're drawing fire, send in my bombers to break down a wall, then send in my damage dealers with a second WD). As I've mentioned though, we are looking at a compromise where he'll be less Jugg/Brute orientated for those who use a single WD.
Bombers & Heavy Gunners: The way the AI works for most of the damage dealers is (as I understand it) that they find a target - this is normally done by looking at what object is closest (although the Brutes will focus on a defence if it's near, thieves on the nearest resource storage, Ching Shih on defences regardless of distance, etc). Once they've fixed on a target, they'll work out a route, which takes into account 'effort' - effort includes the surface type (sand, grass, water - generally grass is the least effort, sand medium and water the most, with some units avoiding water if they have to), and also walls.
Bombers have a behaviour that means that they work together to prioritise targets inside walls (when the exclamation mark pops up), and break down walls to get to it. However, if the collective power of the bombers is considerably lower than the level of the walls, they may favour the nearest object instead. If you're persistently having issues with bombers ignoring walls, I recommend (and this is one of the few times I recommend this) making sure that you send them in in a single, glorious pile after drawing fire - they're more likely to break through the wall if they're in a pack. They should then break through the wall and into the base (and if they die just after entering the base, you can res a big pile of skeletons if you have a WD on hand). I can certainly take a look into making the bombers a more optimistic about breaking through walls though - I've discussed it with Battle Guy before, and I believe we did it with the brutes at some point.
The Heavy Gunner has been already tweaked to make him less dim-witted in a previous update - he used to keep focused and targeted on destroyed buildings a lot longer, to the point where he'd continue swimming to a building that had been destroyed shortly after he got into the water, get to the destroyed building, realise it had been destroyed, then would find a new target and get back in the water. We made his targeting a bit snappier (if a building is destroyed, he'll find a new target much faster instead of focusing on the destroyed building), but he's still a bit deliberately stupid as a counterpoint to how powerful he is - on the dev server we made his targeting comparable to the regular gunner, and he was massively overpowered! I double check though, and make sure that those values haven't accidentally been reverted at any point - he shouldn't stay focused on a destroyed building for too long.
As for the wall issue, I'll have to double check this, but I think once most units targets a wall piece, they treat it as any other object and will keep hitting it until it's destroyed, which means that if the Heavy Gunner has targeted a section of wall, then a nearby section of wall is destroyed, he'll still be focused on his own section of wall (even if he hasn't opened fire on it yet). Don't take my word on that as I'll have to double check with Battle Guy!
With AI tweaks, stuff tends to either be subtle, gradual improvements (like the HG, which is obviously a bit too subtle, heh heh), or big, drastic improvements (like the WD, which went down like a cup of cold sick for some players :oops:), but we're constantly looking at balancing and behaviour!
I was wondering whether you used Slack (https://slack.com) at all? We're considering doing a chat with a group of Captains of big, active guilds in a couple of weeks (to allow people to get to grips with the new update) in order to get their opinions about the game, and would like you to join us if you're available!
Cheers,
Lynsey
Lynsey [Midoki], Jul 9, 2015 ReportReply
Booty isle
Booty isle
Crew
Yes. I do have it. I am not currently using it with my guild though. Would you like me to join a group?
Captain Of "420 pirates" A top 50 guild. Come sail the high seas with us.
Booty isle, Jul 9, 2015 ReportReply
Lynsey [Midoki]
Lynsey [Midoki]
Senior Designer
Staff Member
I'll just need your email address to send you an invite. What times/days are good for you?
Lynsey [Midoki], Jul 9, 2015 ReportReply
Booty isle
Booty isle
Crew
Orange220@aol.com
Anytime could be good for me with advanced notice. I live in California so something during business hours would be harder but not impossible.
Captain Of "420 pirates" A top 50 guild. Come sail the high seas with us.
Booty isle, Jul 9, 2015 ReportReply
Booty isle
Booty isle
Crew
Thank you for inviting my guild to the conversation this morning. I honestly came for one major reason that I couldn't seem to get an answer on but is vital to my guilds morale. The pirates ai issues within the battles is extremely frustrating and is leaving my guild members scratching their heads and upset with this game.. Namely the bombers not breaching walls and the heavy gunner shooting at destroyed buildings and random walls where there are openings. Obviously the wd is the most upsetting change but it is acting like you intended so we just have to adjust. There is no adjusting to the bombers or HG issues. Can you please let me know if there are serious plans to fix these or are they a non issue for you?
Captain Of "420 pirates" A top 50 guild. Come sail the high seas with us.
Booty isle, Today at 9:17 AM ReportReply
Lynsey [Midoki]
Lynsey [Midoki]
Senior Designer
Staff Member
New
Ahoy Booty, and thanks for coming along!
Witch Doctor: We're currently looking at a compromise between his previous AI and his current AI. We can't revert it, because that would lose all of the other improvements (prioritisation between living, dead, regular and skellywag skeletons), and we also don't want to base it purely around numbers of troops as some have suggested, because then it'll penalise players who use a WD to protect their tanks. The WD as he currently stands is currently optimised to be used with at least one other witch doctor (for example, I always send in one WD with my Juggs & Brutes, then when they're drawing fire, send in my bombers to break down a wall, then send in my damage dealers with a second WD). As I've mentioned though, we are looking at a compromise where he'll be less Jugg/Brute orientated for those who use a single WD.
Bombers & Heavy Gunners: The way the AI works for most of the damage dealers is (as I understand it) that they find a target - this is normally done by looking at what object is closest (although the Brutes will focus on a defence if it's near, thieves on the nearest resource storage, Ching Shih on defences regardless of distance, etc). Once they've fixed on a target, they'll work out a route, which takes into account 'effort' - effort includes the surface type (sand, grass, water - generally grass is the least effort, sand medium and water the most, with some units avoiding water if they have to), and also walls.
Bombers have a behaviour that means that they work together to prioritise targets inside walls (when the exclamation mark pops up), and break down walls to get to it. However, if the collective power of the bombers is considerably lower than the level of the walls, they may favour the nearest object instead. If you're persistently having issues with bombers ignoring walls, I recommend (and this is one of the few times I recommend this) making sure that you send them in in a single, glorious pile after drawing fire - they're more likely to break through the wall if they're in a pack. They should then break through the wall and into the base (and if they die just after entering the base, you can res a big pile of skeletons if you have a WD on hand). I can certainly take a look into making the bombers a more optimistic about breaking through walls though - I've discussed it with Battle Guy before, and I believe we did it with the brutes at some point.
The Heavy Gunner has been already tweaked to make him less dim-witted in a previous update - he used to keep focused and targeted on destroyed buildings a lot longer, to the point where he'd continue swimming to a building that had been destroyed shortly after he got into the water, get to the destroyed building, realise it had been destroyed, then would find a new target and get back in the water. We made his targeting a bit snappier (if a building is destroyed, he'll find a new target much faster instead of focusing on the destroyed building), but he's still a bit deliberately stupid as a counterpoint to how powerful he is - on the dev server we made his targeting comparable to the regular gunner, and he was massively overpowered! I double check though, and make sure that those values haven't accidentally been reverted at any point - he shouldn't stay focused on a destroyed building for too long.
As for the wall issue, I'll have to double check this, but I think once most units targets a wall piece, they treat it as any other object and will keep hitting it until it's destroyed, which means that if the Heavy Gunner has targeted a section of wall, then a nearby section of wall is destroyed, he'll still be focused on his own section of wall (even if he hasn't opened fire on it yet). Don't take my word on that as I'll have to double check with Battle Guy!
With AI tweaks, stuff tends to either be subtle, gradual improvements (like the HG, which is obviously a bit too subtle, heh heh), or big, drastic improvements (like the WD, which went down like a cup of cold sick for some players :oops:), but we're constantly looking at balancing and behaviour!